The Cucumbers | Waterfront

THE CUCUMBERS | WATERFRONT

ALICE: Songs on Site is recorded on location and features the site’s unique soundscape as an audio backdrop. This episode includes aircraft, watercraft, waterfowl, and winter coats—it was cold. We recommend listening to Songs on Site with headphones for an immersive audio experience.

MUSIC: SONGS ON SITE THEME PLAYS UNDER.

SEAGULLS FLY OVERHEAD. A TRAIN PASSES BY.

MICHAEL: From Cocotazo Media and You Don’t Know Jersey—

A BUS PASSES BY.

MICHAEL: —this is Songs on Site—

BIRDS TAKE FLIGHT. A CAR BEEPS. A HORSE (OR THE JERSEY DEVIL) RUNS BY.

MICHAEL: —where we explore the music and environmental soundscapes of the Garden State.

CONDUCTOR: Stand clear of the door.

MICHAEL: I’m your host, Michael Aquino.

COFFEE POURS INTO A MUG. SILVERWARE CLINKS AGAINST DISHWARE. KIDS ON A PLAYGROUND. A CAR PASSES BY. CRICKETS ON A SUMMER NIGHT.

MICHAEL: Hey, there. It’s Michael Aquino. We’re back this week with the second half of the interview with Deena Shoshkes and Jon Fried of The Cucumbers. If you haven’t heard the first part, go back and take a listen to that episode before continuing with this one. Go. We’ll wait.

MUSIC: “WE’RE FAR” PLAYS UNDER.

MICHAEL: We’re going to join the conversation the moment before we left off last week when Deena and Jon were about to read quotes from an 80s music documentary called The Hoboken Sound.

AN AIRPLANE FLIES OVERHEAD.

MICHAEL: So talking about this documentary—

DEENA: Ooh.

MICHAEL: —you're both going to have—

DEENA: This is like the Oscars…and the envelope, please.

JON AND DEENA REMOVE A SHEET OF PAPER FROM THE ENVELOPES.

MICHAEL: So you can open the envelope, and there's a bit of dialogue in there between the two of you at one point in the documentary. And I want you to read these lines to each other.

JON: Every band wants to be considered so original that you can't classify it. That's what every band wants, you know? And in Hoboken, there's lots of different bands, but there are some things that seem to characterize it.

DEENA: That's the absence of synthesizers for one.

JON: Right. But also the spirit of it. Somebody once said that Hoboken bands seemed to smile on stage, which is something you don't see in New York.

MICHAEL: Now these are your words for this documentary. How do you feel about synthesizers now, Deena, as opposed to back in 1985?

DEENA: Well, I used the plugins on my computer all the time now. Back then, we were reacting to the overblown, fully-produced, super-commercial music of the 70s that we couldn't stand. We just wanted to be bare-bones and play guitar.

JON: They're great keyboard bands out there, but Hoboken was a lot about guitars. I remember Todd Abramson talking to him about the scene at Maxwell's—he's the guy who booked it and was a co-owner for years— and he said Maxwell's music was basically guys and gals wailing on guitars.

MICHAEL: Was the sound that people were trying to pigeonhole Maxwell's and everyone that played there—do you think that that sound was actually a sound, or do you think it was a feeling or a community that was happening in that space?

A HELICOPTER IN THE DISTANCE.

JON: I think some degree to which, you know, jangly pop was a sound that a lot of the bands had. New York was more urban. Hoboken was somewhere between an urban scene and more suburban. A lot of the people in Hoboken came from suburban New Jersey and kind of wanted to be part of the more urban tough scene but didn't really wanna go to New York, so Hoboken was the middle ground. And I think the music, to me, reflected, sort of, more a combination of the urban music that was popular at the time in the rock world. And also more suburban things.

A HELICOPTER FLIES OVERHEAD.

DEENA: Hoboken just being a mile square, if you met someone at a party or at Maxwell's, you would run into them on the street or in the supermarket. And so, it was really social and we got to know a lot of people very quickly. And it was an exciting time musically—the whole college music scene and bands like REM were coming through. They were unknown the first time and then all of a sudden there were huge stars and The Replacements. The Maxwell scene connected to a national scene. And then the local bands started touring and hitting the places, like, we used to go now to Athens, Georgia, and Atlanta, and places where the other bands coming from Minneapolis. So it was this homegrown scene that connected to something larger and that made it feel remarkable. It was remarkable.

JON: We'd say we’re from Hoboken. People would cheer, they would like it.

MICHAEL: In the documentary, there's a scene where Joe Piscopo is, like, What? Hoboken? Oh, who goes to Hoboken? But it seems like it was much more exciting than what Joe Piscopo thought. What is your music community now? Where is it and how would you describe it?

DEENA: A lot of it grew out of that scene. Like, some of our dear friends that we play in a band with now that went on hiatus during the pandemic are The Campfire Flies. Two people in Campfire Flies, John and Toni Baumgartner, were in a band called The Trypes that played at Maxwell's.

A PLANE FLIES OVERHEAD.

DEENA: They’re Speed the Plough now. Our former Cucumber friends, our rhythm section, John Williams and Yuergen Renner live in Maplewood. John's in South Orange now, but they're our neighbors. And there's a lovely music scene in Maplewood and South Orange. Now it's like over 10, 15 years ago, maybe, we started the Song Swap, which you were a part of.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

DEENA: And I met so many singer-songwriters and ended up collaborating. We're still connected to Asbury Park and the Jersey Shore scene. So, there's a very alive community.

JON: Deena, about 15 years ago, she was saying, started the Song Swap. And she also met a guy named Chris Dixon who was starting up something called the Rent Party, which is a series of concerts in Maplewood. He was booking mostly cover bands, and Deena said, You know, there's a lot of original bands, a lot of musicians that are out here and would love to play these things. And he said, Tell me who.

And Deena, between the Song Swap and that, Deena was really instrumental in getting people who hadn't played in a long time to play because there was a place to play and there was an audience. And we were all meeting because of the Song Swap. People were looking for a place to play. The scene kind of developed around our towns. And Deena was a part of it. Just like Steve Fallon opening up Maxwell's. A huge difference that made. There was a club, there was a destination, there was something to coalesce around. And Deena did that in our town with the Song Swap and with being instrumental to the Rent Party over the last 15 years. And music is just wonderful in that it creates this sense of community. JON: Big or large, you know, commercial or not—it's communities of musicians and people who like music. And It's been a wonderful thing to be part of the Hoboken thing and then to be part of this one later. It's all about New Jersey.

MICHAEL: That was about to say. It feels like it's less concentrated in one location and, kind of, more spread out now.

JON: Yeah.

DEENA: I started writing songs for my solo album. Like, The Cucumbers quieted down. John was writing and I was going off in different directions musically. There was no audience for me whatsoever. I just started getting together with other songwriters. ‘Cause it was songwriters—

MICHAEL: Mm-hm.

DEENA: —who are our best audience for each other. That's what it grew out of. And then my friend Rebecca Turner—

MICHAEL: Rebecca.

DEENA: —who's started the Song Swap with me—I just wanted a group of songwriters to hang out with, and she wanted it to be, like, out in public. And together, we did that.

MICHAEL: Well, I have to say, being a part of the Song Swap, seeing the Rent Party shows you guys did—two totally different vibes, but two very supportive experiences, which I think what we're getting at with a lot of what you’ve been involved with. You really seem to thrive in these communities of musicians and other artists coming together and supporting one another, which is a beautiful thing.

DEENA: Thank you.
JON: I'm also grateful to Deena for just keeping music alive for me. As she's saying, my creative energies have been spent in fiction writing in the last, like, 20 years. And I do a little music, but most of the music I do is backing her up—which we'll do later on this podcast.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

JON: And it’s been so wonderful for me to be able to do that, you know, ‘cause it takes energy. Somebody's gotta book gigs and write songs and keep it alive. And Deena’s been doing all that. I’ve been really lucky.

MICHAEL: It's really beautiful to see that you have this relationship personally as well as musically, that it's continued to thrive throughout the years. All right, so what is the Jersey sound to both of you?

DEENA: Jersey sound is so rich. There's so much great music of every genre. And beyond genre.

MICHAEL: Is there a specific tone to New Jersey music?

JON: The thing about New Jersey that I love so much is that there are just so many people in such a small place. You know, it’s the most densely populated state in the union. There are communities of every kind. Everybody’s here. You know, where we are in Essex County, there's a huge jazz community. A lot of the jazz people who come to New York and make it big, they move out to the ‘burbs like a lot of musicians ‘cause it's easier for the families. Huge scene, a lot of jazz greats. And the urban areas, in Newark, you know, a lot of hip hop greats, came out of there. And then you've got everything in between and all around. We saw Tony Trischka not long ago. He's a New Jersey banjo player. He's one of the banjo gods.

MICHAEL: Mm.

JON: And he's a Jersey guy. So there's some of everything in New Jersey,

MICHAEL: Tell us what we'll expect to see or hear on your new release, Old Shoes.

A PLANE FLIES OVERHEAD.

DEENA: When we played before the pandemic with the Campfire Flies, that was a band with four very powerful songwriters. So I only got to contribute a song or two every time we did a performance or in our recordings ‘cause we're sharing it. And meanwhile, I've been collecting songs over the years that I really wanted to record and put out in the world. And I wasn't sure what kind of band or what kind of production I would do. Then during the pandemic, we could not rehearse six people in a room. So Jon and I did a lot of Facebook Live performances as a duo and we returned to playing together. He indulged me and played my material. All my songs.

JON: She indulges me and lets me play banjo and sing backup.

DEENA: Yeah. So, and then, we started playing outdoors and live performances. And we had this whole set and our son, Jamie, was at home studying for an exam, and he heard us practicing. He's a drummer, and he just played along with us. And then the light bulb off in my head it's, like—Oh, this is how I should put out these songs. I wanted to document what Jon and I've been doing. But it wasn't enough just as a duo. And so, got Jamie to play with us. And we got our bass player friend, and he's a really great bass player. He's toured with the dBs and all kinds of incredible groups. And he lives in the next town.

JON: Rick Wagner is his name.

MICHAEL: And when should we expect to hear said new release?

DEENA: In the summer. Maybe in the fall if things go slow.

MUSIC THEME TRANSITION.

MICHAEL: So The Cucumbers’ upcoming album Old Shoes, will be available this summer or fall. But…but, but you get to hear a performance of the title song. Here’s Old Shoes performed by The Cucumbers on the Hoboken Waterfront.

A PLANE FLIES OVERHEAD.

DEENA: “Old Shoes” is a song about me and Jon, and it's sort of, like, a bookend to “My Boyfriend”—which was the first song that we wrote. And that was about the two of us too. One, two, three.

MUSIC: “OLD SHOES” LIVE ON THE HOBOKEN WATERFRONT.

DEENA:
Some people let go of things
I would never do any such thing
I hold on and so do you
A little bit worn it may be true
We may not be beautiful, but we're inseparable
Just like a pair of old shoes

DEENA: I don't mind it when you take me for granted
In a certain way, it's sort of romantic
‘Cause one of my greatest luxuries
Is counting on your company
So dependable and true

DEENA & JON:
Just like a pair of old shoes

DEENA:
We've been through all kinds of weather
Think of all the steps we've taken together

DEENA & JON:
I may not be shiny and new
But I'm the one that fits you

DEENA:
We polish up nice for a night on the town
But we're both so happy just sticking around
You're my lucky number, my lucky star
And my favorite place is wherever you are
It's beautiful, we're inseparable

DEENA & JON:
Just like a pair of old shoes

We've been through all kinds of weather
Think of all the steps we've taken together
I may not be shiny and new
But I'm the one that fits you

DEENA:
Some people let go of things
I would never do any such thing
I hold on and so do you
A little bit worn it may be true
But it's beautiful, we're inseparable

DEENA & JON:
Just like a pair of old shoes
Just like a pair of old shoes

A PLANE FLIES OVERHEAD.

MICHAEL: Thank you, Deena, Jon, The Cucumbers for joining us on the Hoboken Waterfront.

DEENA: Thanks so much for having us.

JON: Yeah.

MICHAEL: So much fun.

JON: Thanks for having us.

MICHAEL: And where are we going to go eat?

JON: La Isla. Right?

MICHAEL: Yeah. Let’s go eat.

MUSIC: SONGS ON SITE THEME (INSTRUMENTAL) PLAYS UNDER.

MICHAEL: Thanks for listening to Songs on Site. I’m your host, Michael Aquino. Songs on Site producers are Michael Aquino and Dania Ramos for Cocotazo Media, and Ed Magdziak and Alice Magdziak for You Don’t Know Jersey. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, please follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. And if you’d like to hear bonus content recorded with The Cucumbers at La Isla restaurant, you can unlock it by supporting us at Patreon dot com slash Cocotazo M.

MUSIC: SHIFT IN THEME MUSIC (INSTRUMENTAL) CONTINUES UNDER.

ALICE: Audio editing, design, mixing, and theme song by Michael Aquino. Story editing, scriptwriting, and additional audio editing by Dania Ramos.

The featured musicians were Deena Shoshkes and Jon Fried of The Cucumbers. Music and lyrics for “Old Shoes” by Deena Shoshkes. You heard Deena on guitar and lead vocals with Jon on banjo and backing vocals.

Find out more about The Cucumbers—including how to buy their past and upcoming releases—at the cucumbers dot net. You can find a link to their website and our series website in the show notes.

ALICE: This episode was recorded in Pier A Park on the waterfront of Hoboken and produced in Essex County, New Jersey. Both locations are situated on the traditional territory of the Leni Lenape people.

Thanks for listening.

KIDS ON A PLAYGROUND. A CAR PASSES BY. CRICKETS ON A SUMMER NIGHT.

AN AIRPLANE FLIES IN THE DISTANCE.

JON: Maxwell's. Piers.

MICHAEL: Piers.

JON: Cheap rent.

MICHAEL: Cheap rent?

DEENA: Cheap rent.

JON: ​​How little we paid for our apartment? A hundred seventy-five bucks a month.

MICHAEL: Ooh!